Dear Thrumpers: what about the Dow?
|
Harbinger
|
Posted 9:16 am, 08/13/2018
|
Personal attacks aside, can any of you geniuses answer the question:
Why has Trump, a pathological braggart, stopped bragging about the stock market?
Tell you what, I’ll help you out… let’s try multiple choice:
Why has Trump stopped bragging about the stock market?
A. Because the Dow lost 12 percent of its value earlier this year and is now stalled at less than 3 percent growth on the year. B. Because Trump can’t blame Obama without admitting the market crashed? C. Because Trump is essentially an honest man, who, for reasons of conscience, stopped taking credit for market growth that began years before he took office. D. Because the Illuminati finally got to him. E. A and B
CYA tomorrow Harbinger out
|
|
Frugal
|
Posted 6:51 pm, 08/12/2018
|
Fins and the Dawg have Har.... figured out. I do also. Nothing but a Communist!!! Enough already...
|
|
aFicIoNadoS
|
Posted 5:32 pm, 08/12/2018
|
Simplistic explanations? Oh Hairy, you do make one laugh. You copy and paste some partisan biased rant that takes all of its “facts” out of context then try to call others retorts simplistic. That’s great. The reality is clear. Not only do you not understand economics, you don’t even understand the article that you plagerized.
As for your trying to dismiss some points as “bogeymen”, well some times things that go bump in the night really are threats and not urban legends.
https://www.business...der-2011-9
|
|
Harbinger
|
Posted 12:26 pm, 08/12/2018
|
Frugal…
You and Jack are trying to change the subject. So let’s put George Soros, the one world order and your simplistic explanations for the Bush-era housing bubble aside and refocus on my original post, which began with the question:
Have you noticed how Trump no longer brags about the stock market?
Well, have you noticed? My guess is no. My guess is you don’t notice anything except for random bits cherry-picked data that fit your ideological narrative. It must be nice to live a life free of the burden of rational thought.
My post goes on to describe the current condition of the Dow (up a miserable 2.4 percent on the year) and the nature of the downturn that happened in February and March of this year (about a 12 percent loss of value). I also describe how the Dow rose steadily during the Obama years, nearly tripling in value between the index low of March 2, 2009 (just under 7000) and the Dow’s value at the time Trump took office in 2017 (about 20,000).
I chose this data for two reasons. First, these assertions are irrefutable; the movement of the Dow being one of must precisely documented statistics in the world. Second, I wanted to show the falseness of Trump’s rhetoric concerning the economy, hence my opening question.
Since the original post I have been personally attacked as a plagiarist, a fool and an unthinking partisan. None of these charges are true, but even if it they were it wouldn’t change the fact that Trump was willing to take full credit for the stock market, even though the upward trend began years before his taking office. And it wouldn’t change the fact that now the market has stalled, the great one is silent on the subject, choosing to move on to other lies about other issues.
Frugal, earlier in this thread, you claimed I didn’t know what I was talking about. Perhaps you’re right; I’m not a big time equities trader like you. So tell me, kind sir, what is your explanation for the 12 percent loss, the Dow’s subsequent weakness and Donald Trump’s silence? Perhaps the one world order is to blame. Or the Nancy Pelosi. Or something else from your list of boogiemen.
CYA tomorrow Harbinger out.
|
|
jack rip her
|
Posted 7:41 am, 08/12/2018
|
Oh Hairy and his gang of liberal democrats have such a limited memory. They ruined countless lives.
|
|
Frugal
|
Posted 7:00 pm, 08/11/2018
|
Correct Jack. Like you had real estate interests on the Carolina coast. Saw this coming shortly after 9/11.
One other item failed to mention is the effect George Soros has had on our country and also in Europe. Soros's family were Hungarian Jews who were sent to Auschwitz 1944. Young George in order to survive became a Nazi corraborator turning in fellow Jews who were contemplating escape etc. Surviving the Death Camp he immigrated to London where he was able to study business and finance. Soros became a billionaire when he "shorted" the British Pound in the early 90's. He later moved to N.Y.C. obtaining his U.S. citizenship. As an adult Soros denounced his religion. He has embraced Atheism. Soros is in charge or has considerable influence on many Global progressive or liberal agendas. You may be familiar with several. They include Clinton Foundation, End Citizens United, Center for Public Integrity and numerous more.
Soros is a Globalist desiring "One World Order" His funding has provided the seed money for many of the migrations to Europe and the U.S. from Africa and the Middle East.
In Soros's native country, Hungary he is personna non grata. I was visiting Budapest in June and the natives have no affection for Mr. Soros. Even though Soros is in his mid to late 80's, he has the apparatus in place for succession with his sons and other minions.
Soros desires to allow unhindered immigration into this country. With his huge wealth and influence, him or his successors may well succeed.
|
|
jack rip her
|
Posted 4:28 pm, 08/11/2018
|
You are dead right about Nancy and her gang. The liberals started the push for everyone that could fog a glass to own a home under Clinton and lead by Clinton. The foreclosures started in Nevada and Florida in 2006. No one paid any real attention until the early summer of 2008 after the chosen house boy was in office for 6 month. It was then the bottom fell out with banks failing, and the housing and real estate markets coming to a stand still. Houses were being sold at foreclosure for a 1/5 of their value. Tax values plummeted and still haven't gained back their value in the high country. Hairy all this was caused by Democrats.
|
|
Frugal
|
Posted 3:03 pm, 08/11/2018
|
Harbinger, Your knowledge of economic history leaves much to be desired. I am an equity trader and investor who has been investing since the early 70's. Have been equity trading full time since 2005. For those with brief memories the recession beginning in November 2007 was largely a result of a democratic led congress whose primary aim was to ensure that mortgage credit was available to any "warm human body." Did not matter if the individual could repay the loans as it was assumed the homeowner would only have to sell their property for a price greater than was originally purchased through appreciation to repay the loan. Much of the blame for pushing this legislation began with Richard Gephart and Nancy Pelosi...
What many do not realize or know is financial firms took these original mortgage obligations and repackaged them as CDO's (Collateralized Debt Obligations). These instruments of debt were then sold to members of the European Union, Great Britain, China, Japan among many others. Firms that were selling these instruments included Bank of America, Citi Group, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns. Many other smaller firms participated to a lesser degree.
When the homeowners began defaulting in 2006 what that began as a trickle soon turned into a national flood. The CDO's that were originally sold for 100 cents on the dollar now went for only a few cents on the dollar. Still recall in 2008 watching Merrill Lynch implode one afternoon when the value of their remaining CDO's went from 80 cents on the dollar to 10 cents. Facing liquidation and runs on their remaining liquidity the Feds forced Bank of America to purchase the remaining assets of Merrill Lynch. BAC only complied when the US Treasury guaranteed payment.
Beginning in 2009 the Feds began purchasing U.S. Treasury Bonds to the tune of 20 to sometimes as high as 40 Billion on a monthly basis. These purchases in effect were done to prop up the US equity markets and they did. These purchases continued for many years. Believe in 2015 the Feds reduced the amount to 10 Billion and ceased monthly purchases in 2016.
Many equity traders often mentioned that the stock market was on a "crack cocaine high"...If these infusions have not occurred there is no doubt that the US economy would have collapsed. Read former fed chairman Ben Bernanke's for additional insight.
The Obama administration was a beneficiary of these bond purchases. Obama never helped his cause by being positive about our country, rather he was tearing it down with comment in July 2012 "you did not build that". He made many additional statements but what can one expect from someone whose mentor was Saul Alinsky?
Andrew Ross Sorkin wrote an excellent account of the financial crash "Too Big to Fail" Believe there was a movie also. BTW, Sorkin is a liberal but his account is fairly accurate IMHO.
Simple matter Harbinger is that you are a socialist or worse a communist where most business owners who have to make a weekly payroll are capitalist by nature. Instead of creating you denigrate on a small scale in a rural county.
|
|
aFicIoNadoS
|
Posted 1:09 pm, 08/11/2018
|
Obviously.
Also, the article doesn’t take into account varying factors of the DOW as Jack pointed. Out. One example being that GE was removed from the DOW this year and replaced. GE used to be the worlds largest company. Now they are restructuring selling off divisions. This has left investors unsure and has caused the stock price to dip.
|
|
Olejoe
|
Posted 10:40 am, 08/11/2018
|
All those little weird markings look like evidence of a copy and paste.
|
|
aFicIoNadoS
|
Posted 9:36 am, 08/11/2018
|
Hairy, who wrote that for you?
|
|
jack rip her
|
Posted 9:32 am, 08/11/2018
|
Pappy, health care costs created by the house boy costs more then a house payment. There are crickets in Washington about how to fix it. Never is mentioned.
|
|
Pappyspal
|
Posted 9:21 am, 08/11/2018
|
The Dow is only one measure of the economy. It is fueled by Corporate wealth that right now is growing by leaps and bounds. CEOs, major stockholders and billionaires are happy. The rest of us? Not so much. In terms of real spending power, the majority of working Americans have less money today than they had 20 years ago. The real strength of an economy lives or dies in how much discretionary income an ordinary citizen can spend after paying for housing and food; never mind healthcare and debt service. By that reckoning, some might say that the United States is approaching second or third-world economic levels.
|
|
jack rip her
|
Posted 7:22 am, 08/11/2018
|
Hairy, you have only examined the stock market for a decade and during the Trump presidency. You cant hang credit on your house boy nor on Trump for the stock markets behavior.
|
|
Harbinger
|
Posted 6:30 am, 08/11/2018
|
Have you noticed how Trump no longer brags about the stock market?
At market close yesterday, the Dow was up a mere 2.4 percent on the year, which is pathetic, especially compared to how the market performed during the Obama administration �" the Dow almost tripled in value between 2009 and 2017, averaging around 14 percent growth per year if you start counting a few weeks after the first Obama inauguration in 2009, when the W. Bush crash finally bottomed out.
So what? You may ask. Didn’t the Dow rise a whopping 25 percent in the first year of Trump (if you start counting from the inauguration)? Isn’t the market just going to keep going up and up and up, because… you know… Trump. Of course, the Trump cultists’ point of view ignores at least one important fact: the stock market crash that happened earlier this year.
Oh… didn’t hear about the crash? I’m not surprised. It doesn’t sound like the kind of story FOX covers. Besides, the legitimate press didn’t report much about it either. I can’t blame them for that; who knows how much more damage might have happened had a little bad publicity been added to the mix.
But whether you Trumpistas know it or not, it is still a fact: The Dow lost about 12 percent of its value between early February and late March of this year, a plummet that was kicked off on February 2 by a single day loss of 4.6 percent �" and a 15 minute period where the index dropped 800 points.
Is this downturn and subsequent weakness in the Dow something you should worry about? Well,,, yes and no. Yes, if you are capable of understanding that stock prices have been soaring for nearly a decade and a major correction may be at hand. No, if you believe the Trump narrative, which says that nothing good �" economic or otherwise �" happened during the Obama years, but everything is good now, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.
The truth is Trump inherited a strong economy and a bull market. He, with his typical honesty, claimed the economy was a mess, while remaining conspicuously silent about a stock market that had risen steadily almost from the beginning of the Obama presidency. Of course, once Trump was elected, he couldn’t shut his mouth about the market, claiming, with typical humility, that he was personally responsible for creating hundreds of billions in new wealth.
Well… a great deal of the wealth in question vanished earlier this year. But seeing wealth vanish is nothing new for Trump �" he’s lost an outrageous amount of his own money and an uncountable sum belonging to the suckers he’s lured into his dubious business ventures over the years.
You Trumpitarians need to wake up and see this man for what he is, a con artist and an incompetent whose foolishness and self-obsession is going to end up wrecking more than just the Dow.
CYA tomorrow Harbinger out
Post Script… Fun fact: In terms of dollars lost in a single day, the February 2 collapse was the biggest in US history. This fact is irrelevant, however, since the percentage lost is the only sensible way to compare one crash to another numerically. Still it’s a scary sounding bit of info and I know how you Trump worshippers like to scare yourselves. You guys can thank me later.
Harbinger out.
|
|
|
